E:17 Chef Matthew Ratliff on Mastering Pastry & Career Success

What does it take to rise to the top of the pastry world? In this episode of The Perfect Rise: Conversations with the RBA, Executive Pastry Chef Matthew Ratliff shares his journey from the Culinary Institute of America to competing (and winning) on Food Network, earning elite certifications, and leading the pastry team at the prestigious Everglades Club.

Chef Matt opens up about:
 • The lessons competitions teach that kitchen work cannot
 • Why sugar artistry remains one of the toughest (and most rewarding) mediums in pastry
 • How organization and foresight are the secret weapons of every successful pastry chef
 • The value of certifications like CMB, CEPC, and WCMPC
 • Why financial planning matters just as much as technical skill for a long-term culinary career

Whether you’re an aspiring pastry chef, an established baker, or simply curious about what it takes to excel at the highest level, this conversation is packed with wisdom, inspiration, and practical advice that reaches far beyond the kitchen.

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Transcript

Kimberly Houston (00:00)
On today's episode of the Perfect Rise, conversations with the RBA, we're stepping into the world of refined pastry, artistry, and leadership with executive pastry chef, Matthew Ratliff. From earning his degree at the Culinary Institute of America to training under three of the four certified master pastry chefs in the United States, Chef Matt has built a career defined by excellence, precision, and creativity.

He's a Food Network Challenge Champion, a decorated competitor, and one of the few chefs to hold the titles of World Certified Master Pastry Chef, Certified Master Baker, and Certified Executive Pastry Chef.

In our conversation, Chef Matt pulls back the curtain on what it means to build a career as a pastry chef. From the discipline of sugar artistry to the importance of organization, mentorship, and financial foresight.

He shares hard earned wisdom for the next generation, why certifications matter, and how competition focus translates into everyday success in the kitchen. If you've ever wondered what it takes to rise to the top of the pastry world and what lessons extend far beyond the kitchen, this episode is packed with insights you don't want to miss.

Kimberly Houston (01:22)
welcome back to the Perfect Rise Conversations with the RBA. I am super excited for this conversation today. Today I am being joined by Chef Matthew Ratliff. How are you today?

matthew ratliff (01:34)
Doing great. Great day out.

Kimberly Houston (01:37)
It is. I'm super, super excited to have this conversation. We have met in passing several times over the past year ⁓ at different things with the RBA. We first met back in North Carolina, I want to say, when I first started. ⁓ And then I saw you recently this summer here in Atlanta at the RBA Roadshow. So super, super excited for this conversation and for us to be able to kind of pull back the lens on what a career as a pastry chef can look like for people.

matthew ratliff (01:43)
.

Kimberly Houston (02:06)
We've done a lot on entrepreneurship, but this one I'm super excited about for people who want to go the career pastry chef route. So looking back at your journey from the CIA to working alongside three CNPCs, what was one pivotal moment where you felt your path as a pastry chef was truly set?

matthew ratliff (02:09)
⁓

I gotta say even from school, I really just liked the style of pastry and the efficiency that comes with it and

You can either do an individual thing that you can spend an hour on or you can make a hundred of them in an hour, depending on what you want. The diversity of that was always just so intriguing. Such a big universe in the pastry world.

Kimberly Houston (02:54)
Agreed. Agreed. I think I was super in love with that in culinary school, but I love the idea of a bakery of my own more. And I was like, I don't know which way to go. I don't know. I clearly went with the bakery, but I was like that whole plated dessert thing. had my heart, man. So you've competed and won in some of the most intense pastry competitions out there.

matthew ratliff (03:08)
Yeah.

Kimberly Houston (03:19)
What do you think competitions teach a pastry chef that day-to-day kitchen work cannot?

matthew ratliff (03:25)
Complete focus on one thing. So when you're doing a competition, I'm going to make one show piece. I'm going to probably spend two to 300 hours on that. And I might make it several times, you know, or I might make one part several times, but you have that focus where, at work you still have to produce a certain amount of product or else you're going to be out of business. Whether you're working or it's your own place or anything for a competition is that

that one time where you really get to do anything possible to make that the best product possible. And whether that's in visual appearance or in taste. And that focus lets you apply it to your job later on. Because I have every nuance on how to make this cake.

I know if something's going wrong on this cake, I know if it's gonna be too tall, hey, it's too dry, hey, I need more acid, it needs to be sweeter, because I've been through the whole process from the ground up making that cake. And that, I think, is rewarding and I think it's beneficial to your whole career, because until you get into every nuance of that one product, you you don't really know the product. But once you do, you can apply it everywhere.

Kimberly Houston (04:46)
I love man that was a life lesson not even just in the kitchen use that outside the kitchen Okay, so Sugar art has been a big part of your competitive success What first drew you to sugar as a medium and what does it allow you to express that other forms of pastry don't?

matthew ratliff (04:49)
You

so what first drew me there is kind of weird. ⁓ when I first started in the, in the culinary industry, I was a, worked as a chef and then wanted to go into pastry. So I went to school for pastry, but you know, I always asked, what is the hardest thing to do in pastry? And I figured if I could do well at the hardest thing, everything else would easy. So everyone told me sugar, sugar is the hardest.

Now that's one part of it. ⁓ And then definitely when we did sugar the first time in school, I fell in love. ⁓ Now, A, it is the hardest. You spend way more time making a flour. You spend way more time cooking the sugar. It is definitely, it's not something you always get paid for, but it's something you really love. ⁓ So that's how I really got hooked on sugar.

It's real shiny too.

I gotta tell you, just the sheen of it and looking at the iridescence of sugar, just, I'm beat you, it's like staring at a fire when you're a little kid and you first go camping or something, you it just, you get into it and that just kept me there for a long time.

Kimberly Houston (06:06)
Yes.

matthew ratliff (06:17)
you know also a thing that you know you have to love it because Unless you're in the desert you put that sugar piece out on a buffet you got four hours and it looks it are melting and weeping or turning color depending on if it's ice or sugar something you really enjoy doing to get that much out of it and

You gotta put a lot of time and practice into it.

Kimberly Houston (06:38)
Absolutely. That you totally do. I liked it in school, but I didn't love it. But I liked it. And I liked it. My sugar piece didn't explode outside.

matthew ratliff (06:45)
I don't know.

There was just a switch that flipped and said, I really like this. I went home and started bringing sugar home, started microwaving it in the living room. You can ask my roommate at the time, will curse my name to this day because there was just sugar on the carpet. There was sugar everywhere, but I got into it and I liked it. So I just kept doing it.

Kimberly Houston (07:10)
I love it. It makes so much sense. Like it just scratches a piece of your brain that you're like, no, this is a thing for me. Okay. So working at places like the Ritz Carlton, Little Palm Island, Everglades Club give you exposure to very different types of kitchens. What's the biggest lesson you've carried forward about leading and adapting in diverse pastry environments?

matthew ratliff (07:33)
I mean organization over everything if you don't know what your end goal is before you start It's just get fumbling through the dark, right? If you have clear concise organization You know how to build on that because most of the stuff we do is not a one-step process You know, I'm not putting a steak on a grill

and then serving that. am scaling ingredients out. I'm making a base cake. I'm making a cremeux. I'm making a crunch. I'm making a mousse. Then I'm putting it together. Then I'm going to glaze it. Then I'm going to decorate it. Then now I'm ready. If you're not organized, that time can either be, hey, this is a few hours, or this could be on an all-day process, right? In the beginning, I think for almost everybody, it starts off as an all-day process. And then you get more efficient.

Kimberly Houston (08:16)
Mm-hmm.

matthew ratliff (08:23)
You get better with that product and then you can really ramp it up and do it in a timely fashion.

Yeah, but you're also, you're working two to three days ahead generally, as opposed to the chef working one day ahead or two days ahead max. You know, they can't prepare something and serve it three days later. I can prepare the base cake for some large party. can put it in the freezer. I can stop that time. And then I can pick it up in a couple of days and use it. And that helps with the efficiency. And that's the only way we could do it profitably. ⁓

Kimberly Houston (08:34)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

matthew ratliff (08:58)
but you still have to have the organization to know what's coming first, what's coming next, what's coming after, and how are we gonna finish, and then how are we gonna pull it and prep it that very day so it's still a fresh product.

Kimberly Houston (09:10)
Is that something that you teach ⁓ your employees coming through the Everglades club now? Is that a part of orientation or is that something you ask in the interview process? Whereas do they already understand that this level of skill is gonna be needed or is that something that you're teaching?

matthew ratliff (09:27)
It's both, you know, occasionally we'll get people that have some of that in there. And then you get a lot of people that have never had that experience or the place they worked at previously just wasn't super organized. And they have some inklings of that, but have never done the real follow through where you're, know, I have right now Christmas and New Year's dessert planned out. Right. We did that last May. So we were eight months ahead on that.

that causes us to, hey, do we need to make a mold for it? And it's a bigger event for us. It's around eight to 900 people. So if I have to make a mold, I have to make 50 to 60 molds. I need to prepare those things in advance and then, know, garnishes or several other things that go on the plate. Maybe I can get us started ahead of time. If not, I have all the equipment or tools I need to do it when it's time. And that's set up way in advance because

I need to do that in advance because I'll have pop-up things that come every day. And if you're not ready for the big stuff that you already know that's coming, those pop-up things are going to bury you. And then your other stuff is not going to succeed.

Kimberly Houston (10:27)
Mm-hmm.

That is such, again, it's still life advice, man. Jeez.

matthew ratliff (10:39)
But yeah, apply it to anything.

You know, when I was single by myself, you know, I tried to apply that to my life. I would run in the grocery store because I don't want to be in the grocery store. I want to get it done in half the time. You know, I'm out, I'm done, and then I can do something else with my time. Same thing at work. The more automated systems you can set up, the more time you have for creativity or the more you can train your staff to do the basic stuff and do it well.

Kimberly Houston (10:41)
Not just

Mm-hmm.

Yes.

matthew ratliff (11:07)
Now I have time to focus on the things that are new or different or need ⁓ a little bit more ⁓ level of expertise.

Kimberly Houston (11:15)
So you have the certifications of

World Certified Master Pastry Chef, Certified Master Baker, and Certified Executive Pastry Chef. Totally not a small feat. So what role have certifications played in your growth, and do you think they're essential for the next generation of pastry chefs?

matthew ratliff (11:34)
I'll start with the last question first. I think they they're not a hundred percent essential but man does it help right it'll it I want to say it's 90 % essential because you either have to be in the certification mindset when you're working or you're Or when you're doing a certification you need to be in a different type of mindset and that is just its focus You know, it's focusing on this. It's making these products

the best way you can and then doing it in a timely manner too. You know, have to be able to produce a certain amount of things in a certain amount of time to be able to achieve that. And that's the hardest part is your time management usually, or hey, in addition to time management, I also have to check my dough and make sure it's on point and check in on it three to four times before I fold it maybe, or before it goes into the proofer. Is it right? You have to be able to identify that stuff without a whole lot of hesitation.

whether it's feel, touch, taste, you know, or visual sight. It has to be there. ⁓ And certification pushes you to. So that's the other big thing, right? It pushes you to achieve a certain goal where if you didn't do a certification, you might say, well, I'm good with that. Or I'll work on that part tomorrow, where if you do a certification and you're doing a couple of plated desserts and, you know, an ice cream or something, you have to work on those things. And generally,

That stuff coincides with your job anyway, in your profession. If you're really interested in that profession, in that baking or pastry, certification just seems right because then you hit certain milestones with that certification and everyone knows. But I would say that's secondary. Everyone knows it's on your resume and that might ⁓ help you get a job. But the real benefit is, hey, I know how to work cleaner. I know how to work more efficient.

to check things in a timely fashion. know what to do if something goes wrong. I can fix it fast. All of that experience is really what will set you apart from somebody else who doesn't do certification. Because you basically just trained yourself. I can go fight somebody karate, but if I've never taken karate, it's not gonna be very good, right? It's the thing.

Kimberly Houston (13:54)
Great.

matthew ratliff (13:55)
And in certification for me has been, I don't know, it's been exactly what I've been talking about really. It's a push to the next level and it helps get you there and it gives you a direction to go to, know, ⁓ doing the certified master Baker test was great because you know what I worked on? I worked on my lamination to a point where I was, ⁓ had almost no loss or trim, you know, and that, that right there is going to save me money the rest of my life. Right. I have.

Kimberly Houston (13:56)
Understood.

matthew ratliff (14:25)
only 5 % trim loss, man, that's better than the other guy who has 10 % and that's money in my pocket. So the certification has been great for me and it's helped push me to the next level. It's helped get me to where I need to go.

Kimberly Houston (14:33)
Mm-hmm.

I love it. So you've been featured in magazines and shared your own pastry techniques like the blooming flower technique How do you balance being a practitioner in the kitchen with being an innovator and educator in the field?

matthew ratliff (14:56)
⁓ I'm very fortunate to work at a place where that is something that we do on a regular basis. So very few places do that because it takes a lot more time and a lot more money to produce that stuff. ⁓ I made that for my job, right? And then I was able to share that with my fellow pastry chefs. And that's exciting for me because I feel like you don't ever learn anything until you teach somebody else, right?

because you see it on both sides then. The learning side is one side, but until you teach somebody, there's so much more you learn from teaching somebody than just learning it yourself. So by me making a dessert like that at work is fine. I learned a whole bunch of stuff there, but being able to, even putting it into an article, I get to reanalyze that whole dessert. I also have to prepare it in a way that somebody else is gonna understand it. That means I need to understand it on a higher level.

Kimberly Houston (15:45)
Mm-hmm.

matthew ratliff (15:54)
I need to think what is their questions gonna be? How do I solve those questions even before they ask? And I can put that in that article and put that in that thing. And hopefully they take from that and benefit. But I get a whole new perspective on it and I learn new things every time I do that.

Kimberly Houston (16:02)
Mm-hmm.

I it, I get it. Okay, so let's talk about ⁓ the pressure of the kitchen. So many chefs struggle with creativity under pressure. How do you personally approach innovation when you have strict timelines, competition rules, or demanding clients?

matthew ratliff (16:30)
Well, I feel like that's all the time for a lot of us, especially people in decorating, wedding cakes, know, all of those are special occasions. They all need something special. Honestly, practice. I think this is something you can practice. And I know people say, well, the creativity is hard. I'm not an artist, but no, I'm not an artist, right? My handwriting is horrible. My piping is beautiful because I practice. My drawing is very sad.

but my ability to compose something on a plate is there because I put time in for it. ⁓

That's got to be the number one thing. You put forth the effort. If I'm constantly doing special occasion cakes and coming up with a theme, I'm going to get better at it and faster at it. And that's going to benefit me forever. So that practice, I think, is the number one thing. Just trying it. The creativity can come from anywhere, though. A lot of clients come in with an idea of their own. And I can go and research that online. And the internet is amazing for that.

Right? Pictures, photos, I can see other people's work and that's great. And that's also one thing you're always going to do, whether it's I'm looking at a picture book or I'm looking on the internet, I can get ideas from that and I can play off those ideas. It doesn't have to be stealing the whole idea, but I can say, oh, that element of that would go great with this. You know, that's always going to be a part of it. know, looking to other people's work too, you know, I steal everything.

Kimberly Houston (17:55)
Mm-hmm.

matthew ratliff (18:04)
You know, there's nothing that there's nothing sacred. We're talking about food here, right? If somebody else can do it, I know that I can work it out and I can get something close to that too. And I would say any of my work, same thing. Please copy it. Why? Because, hey, it works, right? And it looks good. And if it fits what you need in that situation, then go for it.

Kimberly Houston (18:25)
Don't need to reinvent the wheel.

Make it better. Okay, so charity work seems to be a thread in your career. Why is community involvement so important to you as a chef and how do you choose where to lend your talent?

matthew ratliff (18:39)
⁓ You know, I mean any type of charity itself if you're there and giving to something else I think it's very rewarding to yourself too ⁓ And you're kind of in a way sometimes teaching somebody else. You're showing them something new but you also get a benefit from the ⁓ The local community too if you're doing a charity and it's local and you have a business Everyone's gonna reflect on that and say my gosh that business helped this out

I want to go help that business out too. And they feel almost indebted to you. ⁓ And not in a bad way. It's, hey, I want to try your product. want to, want to, hey, I might tell somebody else about your bakery. You know, that word of mouth, I think is way more powerful than any advertisement you can get online, any advertisement you can buy and pay for. If you change somebody's mind and you say, wow, they're, that bakery is just awesome. They helped out with this charity every year. I want to help support that bakery too. And

If it's a local community, you know all those people. They know what you're doing, right? And they see you helping and doing something. It's not only beneficial to yourself, it's beneficial to your business, it's beneficial to your career because people will uplift you. And it also provides opportunity. I've done a lot of charity work where we actually get to go to a place and do an event and I get exposure from that and that helps my career and it also helps the charity.

Kimberly Houston (20:07)
Agreed, agreed. I did a lot of work with safe houses as a chef. And so that means, you know, no lights, camera, action, but the return, incredible.

matthew ratliff (20:17)
I

you get one person who remembers that for 10 years and you need something down the road, they're there to help you. And it's unbelievable how well people remember things, acts of kindness. And they always get paid in full.

Kimberly Houston (20:32)
Yes. Yes.

Fully, fully. Okay, so this is my last question as we prepare to wrap up. With such a wide reaching career, competitions, luxury resorts, mentorship, publishing, what do you hope your legacy will be in the pastry world? And what advice would you give young bakers who want to follow in your footsteps?

matthew ratliff (20:55)
That's a big question. ⁓ I would like to give everyone a small piece of advice before anything else is ⁓ learn your finances a little bit. When you're in our industry, it is a hard industry. It is not the top paid industry in this world. You're not a doctor. You're not a lawyer. And a lot of times you are getting regular pay. want to say, you know, there's opportunities for above, but start your 401k, start your IRA.

I tell every single person that works for me the same thing. It doesn't matter now. It'll matter when you want to retire. I have met so many chefs in this industry, so many bakers in this industry. Well, I can't retire. I don't have any money left. I didn't save my money. I didn't do anything with it or invest it when I was going up because I didn't get paid a lot. Take a little bit out. Do it. that is a little, you know, for our industry.

It's not a high paid industry. So you need to take that into your own hands and you need to invest in your future outside of work a little bit. And then go and do what you're passionate about. Then go do all your other stuff. That's a little detail. And once you get used to it, it's so easy. You could put it on automatic. You don't have to worry about it every week. You know, have them deduct a little bit out of your paycheck, get your 401k, maybe even intentionally look for a job that has a good 401k program, you know, and that's, that's just because

I guess I paid attention a little bit more when I was younger to the people that were older. And, you know, I saw that kind of desperation in their eyes that, Hey, I'm going to have to keep working past my sixties and seventies. And, you know, I didn't want to be put in that shot spot. So I did some research. did, you know, some reading, I listened to podcasts about it and I got myself interested in it and involved in it. And that helped me out a lot. And now I'm not worried about when it comes time to retire.

Kimberly Houston (22:29)
Mm-hmm.

matthew ratliff (22:53)
comes time to hey maybe I just want to do part-time one day you know and I'm not worried about that besides that ⁓ you know go learn from the best people you can that is the the best thing because they will they're harder and it will be more difficult but they will push you to be better and even if you do it for a short time you will gleam so much knowledge from that you know you can't it's hard to learn from somebody who doesn't know as much from you doesn't mean you can't

There's certain things that they may know that you don't. But if you go to find the best person you can, I don't care if you're working for free at that time, because you might get benefit from it and make your career better. I went and staged in France for two months. I got paid zero dollars and it was a great learning experience. And I learned a lot of stuff. I still do macaroons the same way. I still make certain tarts the same.

Kimberly Houston (23:26)
Mm-hmm.

matthew ratliff (23:51)
because what they were doing was really good and it was on the highest level. I would always strive to go work in a place where it's gonna push you because that will make you better. And now if you're looking for a job you wanna be comfortable, find your job. Be comfortable, that's fine. There's nothing wrong with that. But if you wanna excel and you wanna do it faster, go find the best people you can, stick right beside them and learn what you can.

Kimberly Houston (23:51)
Thank you.

matthew ratliff (24:19)
And don't be afraid to stay after work, do a little bit extra. You know, take notes. my gosh, taking notes, put your recipes in order. Like that kind of basic stuff will improve your life. There's nothing worse than saying, my gosh, I really want to make that triple chocolate fudge cake, but I can't find the recipe. I mean, basic organization, but it'll serve you forever.

Kimberly Houston (24:25)
No. Yep.

Agreed. Okay, so I have to say, I think that in itself will be your legacy, is that you are teaching people things that feel very common sense to us on the other side of it. Like I feel like there's just a certain point in your career where you're like, this is just common sense. But when I think back on like 15 years ago, that was not common sense for me.

matthew ratliff (25:08)
do not be afraid to fail, right? I spent, I probably spent three to four years working on baguettes before I said, man, I like that baguette. And it wasn't for work. It was on my side project, right? You know, I didn't get to do it every day, but.

man once a week or twice a week I would go in and make some until they got to the point where I was happy with them, you know, and I failed so many times. But now I know what not to do, right?

Kimberly Houston (25:34)
Yes. Yes. I get it. As I think about the brioche currently sitting in my kitchen, because that is my snide project right now, is I was like, I want to make really great cinnamon rolls. But I was like, I remember making a brioche type cinnamon roll in culinary school. And so now, again, 15 years later, tapping back into the, still have all my notes from 15 years ago, I kept them. Exactly!

matthew ratliff (25:39)
you

Yeah.

See, you're so far ahead now. You're so far ahead.

Kimberly Houston (26:02)
So now I'm just testing out like what can I do? What can't I do? Can I like flavor the dough? Because I've been playing with sourdough all summer and I'm like let's see if these things will work in a real as a cinnamon roll. Who knows? I have no idea if it's going to work or not. It doesn't matter. Like it literally doesn't matter. But the reality is that by the time I'm done with this I don't know.

matthew ratliff (26:26)
Absolutely.

Kimberly Houston (26:28)
That's the beauty for me. See, even when you're not in the kitchen, you will still use all of these skills. So everyone should be paying attention, take notes, take videos, and always, always, always learn from the best in the industry. Matt, this has been so incredible. Thank you so much for joining me on today's podcast. I'm so glad we were finally able to touch base.

matthew ratliff (26:49)
You're welcome. Very, very glad to be here. Very glad to help usher in the new generation of bakers and pastry chefs. And I try and do that stuff at work and it's not.

I'm not saying it because I'm on the podcast. I said, you can ask anybody that works for me. That's all they hear over and over.

Kimberly Houston (27:07)
yes, we will definitely make sure we link out to ways for people to be able to connect with you if they want to connect with you after the podcast. Thank you so much.

matthew ratliff (27:16)
Thank you.